Julio Frenk 0:06

Good afternoon. I am Julio Frenk, the still relatively new chancellor of UCLA. It is my distinct honor. Thank you. Thank you. It's my honor to welcome all of you to UCLA for the Bernard Brodie Distinguished Lecture on the conditions of peace. Before we begin, I would like to thank Professor Raustiala and the Burkle Center for International Relations for hosting today's event, and, of course, President Sarkissian for being with us. It really is a great honor to have an esteemed former head of state who's also a scientist, a rare combination in our world. So welcome to UCLA, President Sarkissian. I also like to welcome Eric Esrailian, who has done so much to advance global peace and justice himself, a great friend of this university and one of our faculty members, both his Promise Armenian Institute and the Promise Institute for Human Rights were established through Eric's vision. In addition to education, research and service, one of the crucial roles of universities is to convene. The convening function is very important. It's through that function that we bring people together with multiple perspectives to address issues of great importance. This is what makes universities good. Universities intellectually vibrant, places and where great, transformative ideas go, and then they go out into the rest of the world and improve the condition of the world. Universities are among the most enduring institutions we've been around. And as many of you know, modern academia traces its origins back to the 11th and 12th century universities where scholars devoted themselves to the Enlightened pursuit of knowledge. Now, in comparison to its European counterparts, UCLA is still a very young university. Just this last Friday, less than a week ago, UCLA celebrated its 106th anniversary. So, which is for universities, a relatively short period of time, but we've achieved really, a remarkable record of accomplishments in just this 106 years. It is now the been consistently for eight years, ranked as the number one public university in the United States. It's become an unmatched center for creativity, for innovation and for democratic values. Our faculty and staff and students build knowledge that crosses disciplines and illuminate meaning and purpose through arts and the humanities, which we cultivate here, and then we care for our community, through the top healthcare in LA and through other forms of public service, while at the same time advancing the frontiers of knowledge. When our students graduate, they are ready to be engaged citizens who understand societal issues deeply and want to improve the lives of others. But at UCLA, our stature as a leading university requires to achieve even more. It is crucial that we translate our scholarship and research into evidence that then is used to address and solve the most complex problems facing humanity, and that's the way we advance science. We translate the knowledge we produce, and that that way we can improve the create great benefit for society, and we do that from the way we live, from our longevity, from protecting human rights, to trying to deal with issues like polarization in our in our society, and that's that's what we're doing exactly by convening this important event today. The title of today's lecture is the Conditions of Peace, and during contentious times, we should remember that we hold the power to reach out and connect with each other, even when it appears difficult. Events like today's lecture help to connect communities. They connect UCLA with thinkers and doers like all of you, and they open their doors to greater understanding, empathy and kindness. So it is about building bridges by convening. It's about moving towards solutions, and it's about creating greater connection, something we really need in our society. I thank you for your presence here. It's an honor to welcome all of you. Thank you.

Kal Raustiala 4:53

Thank you, Chancellor Frenk, welcome everyone to the 2025 Bernard Brodie lecture. I'm Kal Raustiala. I direct the Burkle Center here at UCLA, and I'm the Promise Professor at the UCLA law school, as Chancellor Frenk noted, we have been doing this lecture for, I think, over four decades. Past Brodie lectures include President Jimmy Carter, Japanese Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone, UN Secretary General, Ban Ki Moon. Last year our speaker was Sanna Marin, former Prime Minister of Finland, who helped Finland become NATO's newest member. This year, we're very excited and very pleased to have as our guest His Excellency, Armen Sarkissian, former President and Prime Minister of Armenia. So in a moment, he's going to get a proper lecture. Sorry, proper introduction. I'm just going to say a little bit about how this is is all going to go. The topic of the Brodie Lecture, as the chancellor mentioned, has always been about peace and security. The lecture was inaugurated during the Cold War, a time when there was significant conflict in the world. Things seemed very dark. Over the years, we lived in some more peaceful times. Today, I think it's fair to say we live in some darkening times. War is raging in many parts of the world, and President Sarkissian in his new book, which he will talk about a little bit today, talks about some of the diplomacy challenges, the geopolitical challenges, the economic challenges, that small states face as they navigate that very difficult world. So I'm going to invite Eric Esrailian to introduce President Sarkissian in a moment. After that introduction, President Sarkissian will give some remarks here from the podium. He and I will then sit down in these chairs. We'll have a brief conversation about the world, about Armenia, about his ideas, his thoughts, maybe even his new book, which I learned about this morning. And then I'm going to open it up to questions from all of you. When we get to that, please raise your hand and please wait for me to call on you. We do have microphones. I think we have two, two microphones, so just take a moment to wait for that microphone to come. Most importantly, please keep your questions short and to the point. There is only one lecturer today, and it's Armen Sarkissian. So, to introduce our distinguished guest, I've asked Eric Esrailian, the Lincy Foundation Professor at the UCLA David Geffen School of Medicine and co-founder of the California Institute for immunology and immunotherapy, to come to the stage. Eric is a renowned scientist, physician, also somehow an Emmy nominated producer, philanthropist, entrepreneur and official designated UCLA optimist. So please join me in welcoming Eric Esrailian.

Eric Esrailian 7:58

Thank you so much. It's truly an honor for me to be here, and I'm going to read this introduction, because, as you'll learn about President Sarkissian, he's really a remarkable person, and I want to make sure that I cover all the bases prior to you hearing him speak. I want to thank the Chancellor for being here. I want to thank Kal, Alexandra, Mollie, and the entire Burkle Center team, I want to thank Ann Karagozian and the Promise, uh, Promise Armenian Institute as well, because this is a really unique opportunity for many of us to have an opportunity to have such a respected and kind of accomplished speaker who has really a unique background. So I'm really excited for all of you to have an opportunity to hear him speak, and I see a lot of my worlds colliding here. So it's an honor for me to be here at UCLA, a really an incredible university, and I'm so happy that he has a chance to spend some time here. In fact, Chancellor Block and I went to Armenia a few years ago when President Sarkissian was in office, and I look forward to having an opportunity to take Chancellor Frenk to Armenia someday, one day, if you ever run across Chancellor Frenk, ask him about Avedis Donabedian, who's a famous Armenian public health scholar and a mentor of his. So it's an interesting connection for all of us. So President Sarkissian served as the fourth President of Armenia, the Republic of Armenia, and held office from 2018 until 2022. And he was born in Yerevan. And President Sarkissian's distinguished career has spanned so many diverse fields which you're going to hear about, but academia, diplomacy, international organizations. He graduated from Yerevan State University in 1976 with a degree in physics, and later earned a Doctor of Science in theoretical physics and mathematics after completing postgraduate studies in 1978 and from 1976 to 1990 he was a professor of physics at his alma mater and founded the subdivision for computer modeling of complex system at Yerevan State University's Department of theoretical physics. His academic career took him abroad with significant positions at prestigious institutions. In 1984 to 1985 he was a visiting researcher and later professor at University of Cambridge's Institute of Astronomy. His work continued at various international universities, including Moscow State University, and universities really across Europe and the United Kingdom. And then in 1991 he transitioned to diplomacy, first serving as Armenia Charge of Affairs, and later as Ambassador to United Kingdom until 1996. He also held the role of Armenia Senior Ambassador to Europe, and was Armenia's ambassador to the European Union, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the Vatican. His diplomatic work expanded Armenia's global presence and helped to strengthen ties with European institutions. His experience in governance extended to Armenia's domestic affairs. As prime minister of Armenia from 1996 to 1997 and he was later reappointed to Ambassador United Kingdom and the Vatican between 1998 and 2000 and from 2000 to 2013 he expanded his influence and global affairs through roles as Special Advisor to the President of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development and a senior figure in multiple international organizations, including the Eurasia House International and the East West Institute. And he also worked with major corporations, including British Petroleum, Alcatel and Telefonica. In 2013 President Sarkissian returned to diplomacy as Armenia's Ambassador to United Kingdom, before becoming President of Armenia in 2018 where I had the honor of being there at the inauguration, and during his presidency, he worked to expand Armenia's international standing through his tenure, although his tenure was marked by political challenges, and ultimately, he left office in 2022. Throughout his career, President Sarkissian has received numerous accolades, including Armenia's First Degree Medal for services to the homeland. In 2017 and the Saint Gregory, the Illuminator Medal of from the Catholicos of all Armenians in 2008 has offered numerous scientific articles in the fields of physics, astrophysics and political science, and holds an honorary doctorate from the National Academy of Sciences in Armenia. He's a highly respected figure in both political and academic circles, and he is married to Nounes Sarkissian, and they have two sons and three beautiful grandchildren, and I have the honor of being godfather to one of his grandchildren. So we are connected in so many different ways, and it's an honor for me, and he continues to be recognized for his significant contributions to Armenia's development and global engagement, so without any further ado, please welcome President Armen Sarkissian.

Armen Sarkissian 12:59

Is it afternoon or evening? So let's say, good evening. Mr. Chancellor, it's, it's a great honor to be here. And these are not just formal words that I have to say. It's, I really think and I really feel that that it's a great honor to be here for many reasons. I think when I was born by my parents, one of them was young architect, and the other one was Professor of Psychology. I think somehow my life was connected with education, although formally, if I think about my life, I was listening, Eric, I hope I will ask my friends next time not to go into that sort of a detail. There were more that you missed, but it looks like it was the last thing that you were saying at my funeral. No, please, at least there's a simple way of saying that I had four lives. The first life was in science and academia. The second life was in Armenian diplomacy, and later I was Prime Minister. And this transition happened because of act of God. Armenia became independent. I was in Cambridge and London School of Mathematics. The President asked me, can you open an embassy? He was academic office President, Levon Ter-Pestrosyan. I said, Okay, I try. I did it in two months. And how do you do that? How do you open embassy Armenians? They're everywhere. I think in two months we had the building, the budget, everything was opened, and then he called me, said, can you open an embassy in Paris? So, okay, then in Brussels, then in Berlin, eventually. Instead of saying thank you, Armen, he made me Ambassador. So initially I thought I can be simultaneously the same time. I can be a scientist professor at Cambridge University and so on, and be an ambassador. No way. So I ended up diplomatic life and ended up being Prime Minister, then it was another act of God. Well, I can say now, in 1997 I had cancer, and I had to retire, because when you do that, what that sort of thing happens and you are a politician, there are always conspiracy theories. People have imagination of that. They don't take that someone can be although I had a vision, and that vision was very simple for Armenia. If I can make it clear, Armenia should become a country, small state of a global nation, I think engaging the whole diaspora in the future of the country, small state, global nation, and I will explain you why. So that was my second life. Then I had a third one, because of act of God I was ill. I had to go to hospital, and then I became a businessman. Had also my my center, where I was the Director at Cambridge University, Eurasia House that were looking at politics, economic development of countries of Eastern Europe, former Soviet Union, up to China Eurasia. I enjoyed that. I even enjoyed being in business and making money. But because of my first life, the way I was born, I got a bit tired of this. So I said, maybe is the time for me to go back again, finish what was cut because of act of God, and when, unexpectedly, in 2007 I was offered to become President of Armenia with the new constitution which was which had made Armenia parliamentary republic, which I was not happy. Parliamentary democracy is a very complex and complicated thing, and our Constitution, mostly written by colleagues and advisors from Germany, was not taking into account that Armenians are not Germans. They are a bit different. And I think it takes time for you to get specific values of democracy and so on. So I went back, and that was my fourth life. So Eric, fourth life. Now I'm living the my fifth life. And I'm a beginner. I'm trying to find what is my fifth life. And one of the things I found that I never thought that I could write books. Well, I wrote books and articles on theoretical physics and mathematics. That was easy, but then I was encouraged by two people, and speaking to you, I would like to remember their names, two very prominent, very famous people that had also huge impact on my thinking as well. So first one was Henry Kissinger. Henry Kissinger and I met years ago, early 90s, when I became a member of New York Institute, of East West Institute, and he was honorary member of that. Can Can somebody close that because it's blowing on my head. Otherwise, I have to wear a hat. I don't like air conditioning, and I don't think it's healthy. What's our what's the normal temperature of our body? Chancellor? 37.6, 36.6 in Centigrade. It's around 90 something in Fahrenheit. Okay. So why on earth when my my body's normal temperature is 36.6 I want to stay in a room where the temperature is 20 and my body has to struggle basically push a lot of energy to balance my internal temperature with the external one. And this is unhealthy. I think it's a habit. Okay, I was in the Gulf before coming here, Chancellor. And there it was in Saudi and in it was in Qatar. It was 40 something degrees, and every room was with air condition. I had the simple question, Arabs living there, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, how would they used to live, there was no air conditioning. Their body was adapting to that temperature, and they were healthier. So please switch it off.

Armen Sarkissian 20:13

So two individuals, Henry Kissinger, somehow we met in 90s, and we became friends, and we were meeting regularly in New York, and we had this tradition having breakfast together at the Palace Hotel. And I learned a lot from Harry, because he was very pragmatic, very deep, very smart, and he was someone that was representing, representing what I believed in all my life, that you have to live every day to learn something new. You stop learning. You die, not physically as a human being. You die. And I do remember years ago, Financial Times had a interview with me, one page, and they put the title "The Day That You Stop Learning You Die." And he was exactly the example of learning every day he was 100 years old. I was asked by was a Wall Street Journal to write an article about him. And it was great honor, because Henry told them ask Armen. And I wrote what I've learned from Henry Kissinger, and it was very successful article. Then, he was 100 years old, and he came through from from New York to London to celebrate his 100 years anniversary with a lot of friends, and I was invited. I was the baby among others. Okay, you can imagine who was there. And then he told me, Armen, are you going to write? Because he encouraged me to write about the small states. And also the second thing, years ago, because I'm a physicist, I used to teach quantum mechanics, quantum physics, theoretical astrophysics. And I always was fascinated with the fact that this nature is unified. If you look at the behavior of elementary particles, mechanics, quantum mechanics, of that, and then you compare it with social behavior? I was finding a lot of similarities. And I was trying, we are a part of this nature, the laws that are governing particles and the laws that are governing humans, they should not be very different. So I started some 15 more years ago working on that, and I named it quantum world and quantum politics. And there were several people that I was discussing, and Henry was one of them. This is the great guy of classical diplomacy, like Isaac Newton in classical mechanics, Henry Kissinger in classical diplomacy. So having a new idea and discussing with him, especially about quantum politics. And we were spending hours and hours discussing this issue with him, and he was next time coming with new a lot of questions. So he was trying to learn when he was 100 years old, being Henry Kissinger. And when I wrote the the book about small states, he asked me, send me the manuscript. I thought, Henry Kissinger, 100 years old, is going to sit and read 300 pages of a manuscript of Armen Sarkissian? But I sent to him. Then he called me and said, What is the last day of the publication? I said this in September, this fine that day, the last day I got his opinion written, Henry Kissinger, 100 years old, read it, and I used one sentence as a blub. I mean, this shows that you live a life, a full life, until the last day, when you are 100 and you are Henry Kissinger, you try to learn something, and the second person is someone that I have great respect. This was Joe Nye from Harvard, from Kennedy. And Joe was again good friend, and until the last days of his life, because we're in communication, he was supposed to come to my conference in London called Advance Tomorrow, ATOM. It's about health, wellbeing and longevity in the future. And our first panel was geopolitics and health. And with Joe, we were and we had these discussions because he is the creator of very famous principles and ideas, which is the soft power and the hard power. So. And I introduced in my quantum politics with another one, which is called smart power. And we were trying, I was the person that I had to explain this was Joe, because he was the creator of soft power and hard power. And it took a lot of discussions and so which were very useful for me, eventually said something that I really enjoyed it and understood that he is taking that seriously. He called me, and he was in Japan before dying. He said, Armen, now I understand what is smart power. Said, what? Because I read the book about elementary particles and quantum mechanics, and there is this thing called Higgs boson. You need Higgs boson in order to put together elementary particles. So probably smart power is a Sarkissian Boson to put together smart and hard powers. You really need that. And it's clear that when you look at small states, being small, it's vulnerable. Being small is difficult, but in this new quantum world, what we see that the world has changed, and even the small states of this world that were small, still, 30, 40, 50, 60, years ago, 100 years ago, there were always small states. You go back 200 years, there were around 200 small states, but they were always under the umbrella of a big one. France had a lot of, Germans, have Prussia, Russian Empire, and others, but now it's different. Why it's different? Because just simple statistics. You look at the statistics from economies or the World Economic Forum or anywhere, which countries are the most are the top countries in the world, in innovation, 10 countries, two United States, United Kingdom. The other eight are small states, small states like Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Luxembourg, Israel, Singapore, with Singapore universities Chancellor, fantastic. And so on. So what are the top 10 countries in the world that are leading in in government, new methods of government? All 10 are small states, and number one is a very tiny state called Estonia, not big. You look at GDPs, not overall GDPs, but per capita. Top 10, not United States, not Britain, not France, not Germany, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, Singapore and so on. So small states are becoming more and more important, all on aspects, all aspects. I mean, you hear about them every day. Who knew 50 years ago, what is Qatar? All negotiations on peace were happening in Geneva. They're happening in Doha now, 350,000 people, third, fourth reserves of gas. But there is one word that the book is called. My book is called the club of small states. But it should have been the club of small and smart states, because they are smart. There's another country that has the same amount of gas is Turkmenistan. It's not even close to Qatar. Having oil and gas doesn't mean anything. And at the in the book, I am examining, what are the sources of success for small states. How can you be successful? If you are small, you can be successful because in your DNA there is something which is called resistance. Your DNA, there is something which is called survival. A lot of small states have to have to fight to survive. And if you are smart, you will find the way of making your natural resource a great advantage, and make that natural, a natural resource or source. The resource or the engine of your success, for different countries, is different. What is the natural source of or natural wealth of Armenia. In the case of Saudi it's oil. In the case of Emirates, it's oil. And they are very smart, because several tribes came together under strong leadership of Sheikh Zayed created something stable, predictable, a country that is investing in in the future in the world, the first university of artificial intelligence was created where? In United States, no in UK, no in Abu Dhabi in Masdar City. And the guy who is running that university is a fantastic guy, Professor, Eric Xing, American Chinese. That's the world. If you are a small state, can you be militarily powerful? Of course, you can. Future wars. How do you win the future war? By the number of soldiers? No, by the number of drones with artificial intelligence. You are a small state with 1 million drones, which you can afford, yet you can have a huge army. The world has changed. Small smart states are there. They are going to make a lot of change for this world, and I'm loving that the small smart states have to come together to create a new organization, S20. Why on earth there should be G20, only representing big, powerful states. They are small, powerful, smart states, which are run much more smarter than the big ones. It's a huge challenge to run to survive a small state. It needs visionary leadership, like in Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, three communities hated each other. Were fighting all the time, Hindu, Muslim and Chinese. One guy with a vision, with the strength of a pious power, brought them together, created a country called Singapore, one of the most successful states in the world, a country that is today also bridge between the West and China, the West and Far East. Ireland, what is the natural resource of Ireland? Irish people. Half of the US presidents have Irish descent, and some of them helped Ireland a lot, smart policies, smart tax policies, smart investment policies. A small Ireland has become, which was sort of a colony of Britain for centuries, has become a very successful state. What is the source of success of United Arab Emirates? It's oil, but smart oil, or the oil for smart people. United Arab Emirates has a national space agency. They have sent a satellite to Mars, and it's run by a PhD, a lady with a PhD, Lady, Sara in United Arab Emirates. Ahead of the time. You go to Qatar, you will be amazed the new leadership in Saudi Saudi Arabia is a state with an oil potential of this size, but for centuries, their political impact was this much. Now, with the new leadership, this political impact will start growing. So it's all about, are you smart or not? Armenian nation was our national natural resource. It's not oil. Armenia has, Armenia as a state has some minerals, some gold, some molybdenum, molybdenum, and so on and so forth. But the real natural, natural resource of Armenia and Armenians are people. And there is one way that we can be successful with a model of small state, but global nation, and every Armenian from abroad, from diaspora, should be a part of that. That's only way that we can be successful. Should be proud. Should be citizen. Should be contributing. Should be keeping his monies in Armenian banks, getting tax advantages, or double taxation treaty with the United States and so on and so forth, then we can be very, very successful. And we have to be smart to survive in the environment, political environment that we live, there is no way that Armenia can be successful if we don't have good relations with the neighbors, be that in the north or the south, we have to find a way of doing that. There is no way that Armenia can afford itself not to have good relations with the Gulf. There is no way that Armenia can afford not having very deep good relations with the United Nations, United States and Europe and Russia. Because if you are a small state, the challenge is survival. Somebody has to tell me how much time I have. I was professor at university. I can speak forever. So just tell me when. Sorry, five minutes. Sorry. Okay, fine. So what do you want me to talk about? I think it's very important. The book that I wrote about small states, it's not about Armenia. There are nine states there that are successful that I examined. They're all different. Some of them are monarchies. The others are democracies. I was looking at why a country like Botswana is successful. I was not interested in human rights in that state or democracy or not, no, because they are all different. But the sources of their success, they have similarities, so you can model it, or you can have a formula of a success of a small state. Of course, the 10th state is Armenia. Well, I had to write about Armenia. I don't consider that Armenia is a successful state, but anybody reading that book would have told, ah, you think you are smart, why you are smart, but you are president of Armenia, and you didn't make Armenia successful. There are reasons for that. It's not about me. It's not about only me. I had my mistakes and I had my successes, but it's about our nation. So in order to make again Armenia successful, one to understand why we were not successful. This is a country that won the war against Armenians won the war for Karabakh early 90s, and we lost the war in 2020 why? What was wrong? In two words, we were not smart. I'm simplifying it. I'm always careful with this two words and one word story. There's a famous joke, political one, which is not a joke, which is a reality. Because years ago, in 1994 I was asked by President Petrosyan to go to Dublin. I was ambassador in UK and also in Dublin, because President Yeltsin, I think, was traveling to Europe. He came to Dublin. That's the famous story, when he was not coming out from his airplane for an hour, and journalists were standing and standing outside waiting for him. The reality was, they say he was happily after having a bit of vodka. When he came out, he was asked the question, and the question was, Mr. President, can you describe the state of Russian economy in one word? And they translated to him, and he said, Good, okay, in one word, good. Said, no, no, no, Mr. President, in a couple of words, the translation was in two words. Wrong translation a couple of two said in two words, not good. So I'm very careful to give simplified formulas for any country, any situation, anything so, but one has to be also reasonable. So with these words, let me thank again, Mr. Chancellor, let me thank the Center, and it's a great privilege for me to speak here, because I know even my good friend, Joe Nye, spoke here at the Center, and the names that you said, it's great privilege for me, and I take that as a small gift from you guys, Chancellor, you, and Eric, to my humble personality, and I will try to make sure that you will be proud of me in the future, not today.

Kal Raustiala 40:17

Well, thank you so much for coming out. And just to note, Joe Nye gave this exact lecture, I think four, maybe five years ago. I can't remember how many years ago. So I want to ask you about small states. I want to talk about your next book. One of the things I really liked about your book was that you identified something that I think a lot of people don't realize. I like to tell my students that there are about 200 states in the world, and the median is about the size of LA County. So we're 10 million, we would be an above average state in population, and, of course, in economics, well above average. People don't appreciate that, because we tend to think about the bigger state. So I thought that was an interesting feature of your work. So let me ask you first about the conditions that you mentioned. So a lot of people have argued that small states have done well, because over the last 75 years, let's say, since the end of World War Two, relatively peaceful world that's allowed small states to thrive. Now maybe we're entering a more aggressive period. We see invasions of Ukraine by Russia. We see war in Africa, in the Middle East, et cetera. Do you think those conditions that you identified will still hold going forward, or is it a time when we should expect small states to be more vulnerable, maybe gobbled up by their bigger neighbors?

Armen Sarkissian 41:44

Yeah, I think small states will, will, they are always vulnerable, and that's why, you know, it's like in nature, in our body, when we become how do we become strong? We train ourselves to do exercise. What does exercise means? We put our body under stress, and then our body reacts to that stress, and it makes our more stronger, greater resilience, and so on and so forth. So when you are under pressure of losing something or some, that's sometimes bad, but it's also good because it strengthens your immunity. Small states have stronger immunity than the big ones. I think small and the big states were living in the same environment, in the same world, and I don't want to discuss the failures of small states, but you look at their success, as I told you, there are nine of them. I can easily give you 20 of them, and that's the number that I would like to have. Small successful states S20, and they will be also an example for the others to join the Club. It's not, it should not be an organization. This is not an alliance, military or economic Alliance. One is in Singapore, the other one is in Botswana. The third one is in Rwanda, maybe because they're also successful state, although controversially in many ways. The other one is in Luxembourg, but from economic point of view, they are very successful. But the other one, let's compare with European states, big ones, Germany. Germany was living in the same world, in the same conditions as the others, and looked very successful. What happened? Well, you all know that. I think if you think about Germany today, people will think and will discuss the failures, the economic difficulties, political difficulties, the rise of the far right in Germany. Why? Because they were not smart. And I can give you a couple of examples of that. The core of German industry were a couple of factors. One of them was cheap Russian gas. Fine. Cheap Russian gas. A country like Germany could have easily created, created an alternative to Russian gas, spend a couple of billion euros, build terminals in Hamburg and buy liquid gas from Qatar, from Emirates, from United States, from anywhere. Why on earth this industry was created by Japan and Korea with the Gulf? Why you are not doing that? Why you are used to the cheap one and thinking that it will be forever? I asked this question to Angela Merkel.

Kal Raustiala 45:01

Can I say something about that?

Armen Sarkissian 45:02

Yes.

Kal Raustiala 45:02

So, she was your student, you told me today.

Armen Sarkissian 45:06

Yeah. Well, student informed that back in 1980s before traveling to Cambridge, which was another act of God and working there for two years. I used to go to East Germany, and I used to work with in the in an institute very famous, which is called Albert Einstein Memorial Institute in Potsdam, and then giving lectures at Dresden Leipzig and Humboldt University in Berlin. And she was at that time, PhD student doing her PhD in quantum chemistry, and she used to come to my lectures for quantum mechanics. And years later, I met her together with Chancellor Kohl, when Chancellor introduced me to young Angelica Merkel, new minister of nuclear safety and environment, and the first thing she told me, said, Don't you remember me, professor? Well, I didn't. But since then, we became friends. We could talk to each other. The thing is that the relations were established under Chancellor Schröder and the committee that was looking at tariffs and where you buy gas was the ministers of Chancellor Schröder. I just want to remind you, Chancellor Schröder later became the chairman of Nord Stream, the gas pipeline that was running from Russia to Germany via Baltic Sea. I don't have any comments, but the Angela Merkel Germany was leading country in the world. Was Siemens energy, in nuclear energy. She was a physicist, chemist, physicist. She knew that nuclear power plants are not dangerous. The disasters that we had, Chernobyl, Fukushima, they were disastrous because there were human errors, not the technology. In Fukushima, why on earth having you know that there are huge waves coming you put the nuclear power plant on the beach. Put a bit far, two kilometers, there will be no Fukushima disaster. In the case of Chernobyl, it was very simple, because this was Soviet Union and nuclear power plants. They didn't had training facilities, so Soviet engineers were trained on actually working nuclear power plant. In order to work there, they were switching of the security systems, 123, 13 of them. You you switch off 10, you start playing with the thing, it gets out of hand, and you get Chernobyl. Nuclear power plants, nuclear energy, in order to get to the New World, where it's green, we get energy from sun, from wind and all of that. That's fantastic. There are countries that are doing that. If you take Norway today, Norway is getting one and a one and a half times more energy than their needs are from hydro and wind. All oil that Norway has, they are selling, and the money goes into state fund, which is one of the biggest in the world. And they invest everywhere, including in California. They make a lot of money. Smart. They could have done something else, but they are smart. In Germany, Angela Merkel decided, under the pressure from the Greens, to basically close the nuclear power plants and the whole industry. I mean, Germans were number one in the world in building and running nuclear power plants. It doesn't exist now. She decided that we have to develop our sort of a green agenda, which is fine, but how do you do that? Do it reasonably. Let's go to electric cars. Germany was always famous with their cars, German engineering, their genius, Mercedes Benz, they took over Rolls Royce, Bentley, Volkswagen, the car is, is engineering art. You look at the engine and everything. What is the electric car now? It's an iPad made where? China. It's an battery made where? China. Wheels, four wheels. Chinese companies are shareholders of Michelin, Pirelli and all of that stuff. The other things, the body is plastic. There is no engineering there. It's an electric car. You drive an iPad. That's why Volkswagen today has huge difficulties. Fine, the air in the city becomes clean, fine. But do you know how dangerous is your battery lithium? Can you do anything? Can you refine this battery? You are running 200 miles on this battery. Tomorrow, there will be another battery for 500 you have to throw that old one the car and the battery together. Why don't we think about the future before jumping and doing things? Yeah, the air in London, Paris is cleaner. So what are we going to do with the mountains of old batteries with lithium, which is a poison. I think we have to plan our future.

Kal Raustiala 51:04

Tell us about the new book. So you mentioned quantum politics. I know you told me you have it coming out this fall, that it's somehow marrying your understanding of quantum physics and your understanding of politics. How do they fit together?

Armen Sarkissian 51:23

Well, I told that for years I had something inside me that was I was every and each time when I saw some political event, social thing, human behavior of people in big numbers that was reminding me some behaviors of particles or statistical physics and so on and so forth. And I couldn't help myself why this is happening. Then I started thinking that there must be a lot of common things, because we are still a part of this nature, and we behave, even if we are individuals, we have our power, we have our decision making, but when the number is 1 million of us, we start behaving like a body. And there are rules that are running these bodies. And with the time, our human behavior becomes more and more quantum, quantum in the sense that it's not classical. This world, the way it's run, politically, economically, is not the same that like 30 years ago. It's different, the way we run, the way you order food 30 years ago, 30 years ago, nobody will believe that. We will have a video conference live with Australia. We have it. Or a small country, like a United Arab Emirates will send a satellite to Mars. We have it. Our basic values and understandings and beliefs ideologies are changing with the time. We don't want to believe in that. We think, and we are trying to find comfort of stability. What do you want to find? Predictable world? Okay, that's in our mind. Everybody's. When I was buying a house, I was thinking, I should buy another house near nearby, because my son will live with me. A lot of elderly people love the younger, young boys and girls are silent. Nobody lives in this world because everybody wants to be independent, free travel and so on. I have two sons. They are all over the world, and the hope that they will live nearby to me, it's a dream. I love that. I think in our culture, or Armenian family, is very important. We come together and so on. But the world is different, okay, the way we run business. Okay? Do I have to travel to run business? You could have had had me also here on Zoom. I would not enjoy because while speaking on Zoom, I cannot see your faces and smiles, and because that's sort of encourages me, I'm saying something either smart or stupid. I can I can judge from your your faces. That's a trick that a sort of a trained professor knows, because when you have 150 students, you are teaching them theoretical physics, not about Hollywood or about acting. About physics. You have to keep them two times 45 minutes, their attention to you. So you have to be an actor, a Shakespearean, 45 minutes. They listen to you, maybe something exciting about how to understand physics, how to ask questions, but it's difficult. So this is better than with Zoom, but you can run your business with Zoom. The world is different, and in the West, people are becoming more and more individual, more and more lonely. In United Kingdom, the statistic is statistics is there. And this came from our conference on ATOM on health and well being this year, last year, in November at the science museum group. And we are top specialists and so on, by Chief Medical Officer of UK. Huge number, huge number of young girls are trying to have a to do suicide, because there is, there is a conflict. All of us here, we are two. We're not one. Each of us. There's Armen Sarkissian and there's Armen Sarkissian virtual. On the web, on Facebook, on Instagram and everywhere. And doesn't mean that necessarily, that we are the same. Sometimes the virtual is much better than the normal one. Sometimes the other way around. Okay, but if you are a young girl, unsafe, you're entering you want to be like Kim Kardashian in London, your family doesn't have money, and you are not as smart as Kim, because she is smart the way she runs her business. They all make themselves like beautiful photos. And then there is a conflict with the real life and the virtual life. It's an amazing it's a fact. Even at universities, I was speaking to Manuel Muniz, one of the best universities in Spain, they have several percentage of their students with psychological problems, loneliness, absence of family relations, knowing each other when it's difficult, there's someone that will help you, you will share, I mean, this whole thing that when you have a problem, you go to what consultant, or what psychological consultant. What is this? Called? What?

Kal Raustiala 57:33

Therapist?

Armen Sarkissian 57:34

Therapist? I never understood this. My best therapist was my mom. So now, my best therapist is my sister and my wife, my boys. I share with them. They are free. They say anything that they think about me and I can survive. I can share with them. Why should I go on someone tell my life story to someone. My family knows my life story, my friends know my story. So the real life is with family and friends, but we are losing it. Values of democracy. How many times you vote for President of the United States? Once in four years or five years, once? How many times do you vote for president of United States per day with this 4? 14? In Facebook and all politicians depend on this. In United Kingdom, they changed several Prime Ministers with elections. No, just don't. They didn't like that Prime Minister, you can unite again, Boris Johnson, was having beer during the COVID. Well, I'm simplifying the story. There was a huge attack on him on Facebook. This is this is changing democracy. This is changing the way politics is run. And I'm simplifying this because what we have lost also what is true and what is false. There is a notion at Oxford University: post truth. What does that mean? Doesn't matter what is the truth. I do something bad, but then I have 1000 boys and girls sitting and writing. Each of them has 50 virtual names and 1050, 50,000 writing in Facebook, the non-truth becomes truth. So how do you run business? How do you run politics? Politicians can be destroyed. It not because they are doing something wrong, because if you have money, you can create an image, or you can destroy an image. Welcome to the new quantum world. This is just a service. I told you, why? Because I hope that you will buy the book, and the book is 400 pages. I cannot tell all of that to you.

Kal Raustiala 1:00:23

Okay, one final question from me, and then I'm going to open it up to all of you. So we're sitting here behind the flags. Armenia, US, California, UCLA, what lessons would you offer for California as sometimes compared to a nation state, sometimes thought of we're the fourth or fifth, fourth biggest economy, fourth today? So were we a state, we would not be a small state. We would be quite big. But what sort of advice would you offer to us to navigate this world?

Armen Sarkissian 1:00:57

Be smart and pragmatic. You're fourth or fifth, doesn't matter. Are people happy here? I live now in London, and what's happening in the last year, year and a half, all of the wealthy people, successful people, are leaving London because of the changes in taxation and so on and so forth. Okay? Some people say it's just wide, wider, wide. The richer people have, they should be taxed more, and then the others, fine. What's happening? London was the capital of the world, financial capital of the world, London City. It's not now. Banks have gone. Bank, HSBC Bank is leaving London, okay? Because money is liquid, it moves so easy. If you're multi millionaire or billionaire, how much does it take you to move from London to Monaco, you go to Dubai now, half of Dubai are British, the other half are Russians. And if the wealthy person lives in London, pays less tax, house, house staff, cars. You live there, your children go to school there, you pay all of that. Then you live there, you start thinking, why shouldn't I invest in this or that and so on and so forth and so on. I think managing poor and rich is the challenge, because there are poor people that deserve a good life. There are rich people that have to be fair, but to find the middle, golden middle, I think I would say that my advice would be find the golden middle, because then you will be continuing being successful, and people will be happy as well. Try to avoid populism. I was born in a country was the most popular, populist, not popular, populist country in the world called Soviet Union, because we were promised that we will all live in communism. We were told that we are all equal. We were told that we own everything in Soviet Union. But there were some people that were more equal than the others, Politburo, members of Communist Party. At the moment, and that system didn't work at all. It didn't have the industry. There were no, and the tradition continues until today. Russia is not producing famous cars, famous washing machines, dryers, but it's producing famous tanks. That's the structure of economy, tanks, airplanes, fighters, not something good for people. So they import that from Turkey, from Europe, from China. But they produce tanks, Soviet Union was speaking about equality. The moment it collapsed, the whole wealth that everybody had, they found a fantastic way of distribution of that whole wealth. Every and each Soviet citizen was given a voucher, and that voucher was a piece of your wealth from the wealth of 350 million of the biggest country in the world. So what happened? Whoever had a neighbor or a friend in the West, some dollars, some cash, bought these vouchers for, for peanuts, and there they privatized huge entities for nothing, for nothing. So try to avoid populism. It doesn't work. The problem is that the moment Soviet Union collapsed, and United States and the West won the Cold War. The happiness and the hype was so big, so important, everybody in the West were saying, Ah, that's it. Soviet Union gone. Democracy, free market capitalism have won. We don't have any further problems. There was even a scientist called with the Japanese name, wrote that this is the has -

Kal Raustiala 1:05:48

Fukuyama.

Armen Sarkissian 1:05:49

I know the name. I don't want to pronounce that. Wrote that this is the end of the history. In fact, that was the beginning of the history of the new era. So it made everybody relaxed. If China becomes capitalist, then it will become democratic. If Russia becomes capitalist, it will become democratic. It was the beginning of the new era, and that era is called Quantum era, of the new world with phenomenal new technology. And the source of this technology is quantum physics, if not, the fathers of quantum mechanics would never, never have this. So quantum means not only that small is powerful, individual power with this, but it also means that our power is based on quantum physics as well. There is more in the book, but you have to buy it.

Kal Raustiala 1:06:59

Okay, we'll save that. Okay, so questions, we like to start with a question from a student. So there are students in the room, have their hands up?

Armen Sarkissian 1:07:09

Or whoever feels as a student.

Kal Raustiala 1:07:11

We have our mics ready to go. Let's go right over here. Yeah, go ahead.

Armen Sarkissian 1:07:22

Ladies first.

Kal Raustiala 1:07:25

Okay, that's fine, too.

Audience Member 1 1:07:27

Sorry to disappoint. I'm not a lady. First and foremost, I'm Yervan Matavos, and I'm a third year student here at UCLA. And I was really happy you brought up the example of Singapore and of small states like Singapore, El Salvador, that essentially sacrificed democracy. You also brought up South Korea. We oftentimes we forget that South Korea used to be a lot more authoritarian than North Korea. I want to get your perspective on the fact that, is sacrificing democracy worth it in regards to growing your state? We look at Singapore today, yes, it's rich, yes, it's rich. Yes, it has these phenomenal universities, but it was an authoritarian state for a long time. So South Korea, and currently we see El Salvador is essentially getting rid of its Parliament under Bukele like to put forth its nation. Would you say that this is an option for Armenia? And as you mentioned, you were opposed to the Constitution of 2007 with it becoming a parliamentary democracy.

Armen Sarkissian 1:08:27

So the question is?

Audience Member 1 1:08:28

Is sacrificing democracy credible?

Armen Sarkissian 1:08:32

No, no, they don't, they are not connected to each other. Because I can give you examples of a lot of small, successful states that they are fantastic democracies. The same, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Luxembourg, they're all democracies. So the question is, it's, you cannot have a sort of a mold for everybody, each of us have, where we have our history, our culture, our identity, okay? I was referring to the Armenian constitution of 2015 which is a parliamentary constitution. And it was written mostly by German consultants helping Armenian lawyers. Fine, but when they have forgotten one simple things, Armenians are not Germans, okay, the same constitution will work very well as a democratic constitution in Germany, but it will not work in Armenia that has lived in Soviet Union for 70 years. The mentality is different. It will not work in Georgia, or it will not work in Kazakhstan. To give you a trivial example, Angela Merkel, because we referred to her, was my guest in Armenia. Well, we knew each other for years. We were friends. She came to visit President of Armenia, so we had a meeting. A lunch together, and then tet-a-tet discussing. When it finished, I said, Okay, I will take you to the car. She was frightened. Said, no, no, no, you are the president. I'm just the Chancellor. Prime Minister said, so what? Said, no, no, you cannot, because in parliamentary Constitution, the President is higher. He's the head of the state, okay, and the Prime Minister is elected. Comes and goes. And we had this, we had this friendly fight. Should, well, can I go down with her to her car or not? So I won because I was her former professor, but that shows the difference of mentality. You take a policeman on the street, a traffic police in one of the former Soviet republics that stops their cart and just says, sir, that you have done something wrong, the sort of a usual outcome for years was, what, just bribe? Can you imagine that in London, on a street, policemen stopping you, and you can bribe the policeman, nobody even thinks about it. So that shows the huge difference in culture. So when you are molding your country, you have to take account. There are no formal sort of a cliches. You do this, you will be successful. No, you have to go deep into the fabric of the nation. Remember that your history, culture, what sort of people you are, including in California, even if you are to understand California and Arizona and Massachusetts are different. I'm not speaking about smaller states like Armenia and so on, with the history of several 1000s of years, living 70 years in Soviet Union, when everybody thought that we owned everything. You were producing, you were working at the bread factory in Soviet Union. Everybody, at the end of their term, were taking 10 breads home, and the security standing was saying, it's normal, because we own the factory. The salary is small. They were taking 10 breads. They were selling one for their family, the other nine selling it to their neighbors. That was normal. It's in the mentality of people when you are trying to build up your state. And today this dramatic change, you have to take into account the fabric of it. That was the genius of Lee Kuan Yew, because he he was a part of that society, and he kept his his sort of devotion until his last days. I had the privilege of meeting him twice. But when I was in Singapore, I went with his son to his the house that his father lived, the son was Prime Minister, is one of the modest, most modest houses that I've seen in my life, of a President over and a Prime Minister of a country, just simple, two bedroom house. So you have to be knowing what you are doing. And there is no model for everybody. Every and each nation has to find its leader, its model, its way of introducing and developing or evolutionary coming to the most human values like democracy and others. The West went to Afghanistan. Were you successful telling Afghanis that their wives are equal to them? Okay? But in Saudi Arabia, I was in Riyadh, ladies are driving, less hijabs, and so evolutionary processes, also the moment you start forcing it doesn't work. You have to take it to come. So a long answer to your simple question. The answer is, yeah, no, no, it's not a dialog. You write me a letter. Okay? I'm happy to hear your opinion. But if we start a dialog, then it will not finish.

Kal Raustiala 1:14:32

Right over here in the middle, you got it? Yes. Dark shirt. Thank you.

Audience Member 2 1:14:38

Thank you so much, President Sargysan, for being here and for all the insights.

Armen Sarkissian 1:14:44

I'm Sarkissian, I'm not Sargsyan.

Audience Member 2 1:14:46

Sarkissian, sorry, and for the insights that you provided. I have a question about something you mentioned earlier. You mentioned how Armenia is to keep good relations with neighbors from the north, the south, US, Europe and everywhere. How should Armenia strategically position itself in today's world to start and maintain those relations in the long term? And how can Armenia use its quote, unquote oil, which you said were its people, to achieve that?

Armen Sarkissian 1:15:12

I think first of all, we have to start using that oil. We are not doing that. Our constitution says that, initial constitution was saying that in order to become President of Armenia, you have to live in Armenia 10 years and have only Armenian, Armenian passport. Well, you think about your best guys are living outside Armenia. Even the First Republic, today is the day of the First Republic of Independence, Day of First Republic of Armenia in 1918, 28 of May, all of the leaders, most of the leaders of that Republic and further Soviet Armenia came from outside, from St Petersburg, from Moscow, from Vienna, from Tbilisi, some from even Constantinopolis, Constantinopolis, some from Paris and so on and so forth. Why? Because the so-called aristocracy, not the aristocrats royalties, but aristocracy in the meaning of old Greek definition by Aristotle, those who are educated, smart and so, lived abroad. They didn't live in Armenia in 1920, they didn't. Even the first leaders of Soviet Armenia. They all came from outside. I think you have to invite them. How on earth? So today's constitution says that you have to live six years in Armenia and have only Armenia. But who needs a leader that has not been challenged by this new world living outside, has accumulated a lot of experience, have made a lot of mistakes, a lot of successes, is ready to lead? So you need a leader that was born in his village and lived all his life in the village, and you want to run a small state and a global nation. How do you do that? The name of successful Armenians abroad is huge. If you are not Armenian, you will never even guess that these people are Armenian. In politics, in business, in entertainment, in sports, everywhere, if we don't use that, okay, I can give you examples. Our compatriot, Noubar Afeyan. He's professor in MIT. Very smart guy has created what? Moderna. Everybody knows that, Was it useful or not? I don't know the vaccination. I have my own opinion about vaccination. I had five vaccines, and I've got a very bad case in COVID, because I was President, I had to lead people getting vaccines. So I had Pfizer, I had Moderna, I even had Chinese. Then I was taken to hospital for 10 days after all of that. But a guy is absolutely educated, smart, successful businessman, scientist. He cannot be Minister of Science in Armenia because he had to leave every time give his Canadian passport. I gave him Armenian passport come and live in Armenia for four years, hoping that on the fifth he will become minister. The one of the best doctors in the world is Lord Darzi, a guy. He's Armenian, family from Iraq. He's Lord. He is the guy that has created keyhole surgery, is leading huge Imperial College research, and so he cannot be Armenia's Minister of Health, because he has to give up his British passport, His Lordship, come and live in a village in Armenia or in Yerevan, and hoping that on the fifth year, he will become minister. He was Minister of Health of UK. He was advising US presidents, Chinese, Japanese government. He has built the biggest hospital in the world for ladies in Qatar. They have spent $7 billion there, and he was leading them to do that. And that guy cannot be Minister in Armenia because of our Constitution. So how do we do that? Change the Constitution, allow the Armenian power from the world come and help Armenia. Sorry.

Kal Raustiala 1:20:05

OK, a lot of hands. We only have a few minutes left, so it's going to be a quick question.

Armen Sarkissian 1:20:09

Why, I can speak a couple of hours?

Kal Raustiala 1:20:12

I know you can. Right here in the middle. Yes, he's got it.

Audience Member 3 1:20:22

Hello, I'm Summer. I'm a first year from Singapore, and I wanted to ask about your thoughts on the ability of small states to influence on the global arena and possibly even shape conditions that could be more favorable for small states. Thank you.

Armen Sarkissian 1:20:42

No, I think the small states are have huge impact on global affairs, politics, economy and many other things. Okay, they have huge impact today. It's is that, the thing is, people don't realize in United States, President of United States was visiting the Gulf, and he visited three countries, two of them small states. President of United States in the Gulf, Qatar and United Arab Emirates, both of them small. United Arab Emirates is one of the biggest states in the world that is developing data management and data storage. I mean kilometers of data storage. The third country was Saudi Arabia. It's not a small state, but you can consider that Saudi as a small state, because it has huge potential, but small impact politically compared with Emirates, or even compared with Qatar, they have huge impact on global affairs, positive, negative. It's a different story. Look at the impact that Israel has on global affairs. Small state. Do you like it or you don't like it's a different story. It's up to you. But can you say that these states are run by bigger ones? Can you say that Israel is run by United States? I will not agree with that. It's an independent, strong state on its own, with huge military, huge. It's a small state, but has powerful military, and that's going to be in the future as well. Okay? Innovation, as I was telling you, done by small states, your own country, Singapore. It's a phenomenal country. Well, I spoke at the University, National University of Singapore, that is also our partner in ATOM Institute, one of the best universities in the world. You go there, they are buying Nobel Prize scientists from America and UK and France taking them to Singapore. Huge labs. Singapore is ahead of many, and it's a tiny state. You don't even have a space to leave. There's no space to live in Singapore. But look at how organized it, but I will add something that you don't know. The first church in Singapore was built by Armenians, and that street where the church is until today, is called Armenian Street. The most famous hotel in Singapore is Raffles, and it was built by one of my predecessors, Sarkies Brothers, 160 years old. Now it's owned by whom? By Qatar. Welcome to the new world.

Kal Raustiala 1:23:58

Unfortunately, we're out of time. Please join me in thanking President Sarkissian.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai